Gifted for Leadership: What Not to Wear

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« Displaying God's Splendor | Main | Over-Trained and Overwhelmed Leaders »

August 18, 2009

What Not to Wear

by by Tracey Bianchi

You are about to read a post about women and clothing. It probably cannot get more stereotypical, but before you cringe and click out of this window, I beg you to come along. This is about the community of God—not the power of the pedicure.

I once exchanged ideas with two male seminary classmates. Graduation was near, and as we chatted about the students moving into pastoral roles, we tossed out the name of a very talented female graduate. “I wonder what Sally will do?” I said. Sally was smart, savvy, and anointed in a powerful way. She was also gorgeous and turned the heads of many men (not something she tried to do).

My colleague said this, “Sally is phenomenal, but when she preaches few men will be thinking about God. If you know what I mean.”

“So, you saying she’s too pretty to preach?”

My friend, a very honorable man of God, said basically that only men who have done the hard work of capturing their thoughts will be able to consistently focus on the message. The rest may cave into some tempting thoughts. He was an egalitarian in his views on women, and it saddened him to say this. But he shared from his heart a potential land mine into which women leaders can easily trip.

Another friend recently shared a story from a communion service she attended. In this particular church the pastor served communion from atop a set of steps leading up to the pulpit. The recipient stood a good foot lower than the pastor when receiving the elements. This vulnerable pastor, after serving communion, opened his heart and made a public plea to the females in his congregation. He said simply that as a man trying to honor God, it would help him greatly if women would refrain from wearing low cut blouses on communion day.

The response from the congregation was applause. A clear reminder of the power that something as seemingly benign as a wardrobe choice can have on a community of faith.

So, to risk the stereotypical question, in a consumer-driven, sexually-charged culture, how should a woman in leadership decide what to wear?

And what about the menfolk? This is an issue that reaches farther than a pair of heels. I often joke about what I call “pastor hair.” How many young, emerging leaders sporting a spiked do with edgy glasses (think Rob Bell) do you know? Others spend a good chunk of time perfecting the worship leader look (David Crowder admits to this in his book “Sunsets and Sushi”).

When attending youth conventions I could always spot the youth pastors as they boarded the plane. Cargo shorts, a goatee, and a t-shirt stating support of some edgy cause. People in ministry think about these things. I am not saying this is time well spent but at times I am aware it can be the reflection of an earnest desire to connect with a particular sub-culture.

To navigate the pitfalls of ego, temptation, and consumerism, female leaders need to make wise, God-honoring choices when it comes to how we dress. As women, we need to recognize the struggle that most men face (statistics say 80 percent are tempted by pornography). And even though women should not receive blame for the thought lives of men, women can help or hinder their chances of triumph. In 1 Corinthians 8, Paul reminds us to live so that we do not become stumbling blocks to one another.

We need to think wisely about these choices and engage the conversation. Just as my friend’s pastor did when serving communion. How freeing to publicly engage these private struggles so many face? How honoring to our men, women, youth pastors, students, and marriages to bring these conversations to light? For both women in the pulpit and youth pastors on the plane, how we dress and why we worry about it is ultimately something God does indeed find important as it reflects a larger reality, how we value and view one another as brothers and sisters in Christ.

Comments

Great post!

I really do wish we could rethink our attitudes toward fashion in church entirely. I often feel more assaulted by hypersexualized dress on Sunday morning at church than anywhere else I go. "Dressing up" somehow equates to "sexing up" and, as a vulnerable male, myself, I wish I could worship without having to keep my eyes closed. I don't want to encourage legalism, which is the other end of the fashion extreme, but I do wish modesty wasn't thought of as "frumpy" or "dowdy." We can be modestly attired and beautiful or handsome.

I know that many believe that you must "dress your best" when going to Church as a way of showing respect to God, but I don't dress my best when I shower, and God see me just fine then, too.

Further, our accommodation to modern fashion not only sends the wrong sexual message, it also separates the body of Christ from those who would seek to join us.

Again, great post!

Rich
BlogRodent

Thank you for this article! The Lord has been speaking to me recently about my wardrobe and especially the choices I make to attend church in. I don't wear extremely low-cut tops but some of my outfits reveal curves and accentuate other assets that only my husband should have a good view of.

I hope this concept of modesty in wardrobe and demeanor will return to the church of Christ! There are enough distractions in the world for our men that are desiring to be godly - let's help them out and be extremely careful about our clothing choices!

In theory, I agree with you. We do need to be respectful of one another and not intentionally create temptation. But come on. If a man can't listen to a woman preach because she's beautiful, he needs to grow up. She is a person. She is his sister in Christ. He needs to do the hard work of figuring out how to listen to her.
And while I appreciate the pastor admitting his struggle to the congregation, maybe he needs to take responsibility for changing the situation. Change the way the church does communion--have the people stand or do communion in a different part of the sanctuary so he's not standing over them. I don't know. The point is, it's not a woman's fault if a man can't serve her communion without sneaking a peak down her blouse. Even a modest blouse can be revealing from above.

The whole "lust is a huge issue for men" thing feels, to me, like an excuse for finding ways to keep women from ever being seen as fully human and fully equal. It's a way to keep women out of leadership (it's "too tempting" for men and women to work closely together). It's a way to limit women's access to decision making and the power structures of the church. As long as we say that men have this problem and the only way to deal with it is for women to make sure they don't do anything to temp them, men will continue to have this problem.

I'm so glad you wrote about this. Another thing to think about is if you are on the worship team. Not only your dress, but even the way you move can so influence those watching you as they are trying to worship.

I wonder, could the pastor who had so much trouble looking down the necks of his female congregants not have stepped down off the platform to give communion? Rather than make all the women feel like they'd done something wrong, he could have taken it upon himself to keep his eyes away from temptation and stand at eye level with the congregation.

As I think about it, it would seem that women are supposed to go to church as if the congregation is full of lusting, drooling wolves who see a well-turned ankle and immediately fall into sin.

This sort of thinking is going to be the death of the church. The rest of the world is not going to turn back the clock to 1820. Yes. Christian women have a duty to be modest (as do the men), but I'm about fed up with carrying the blame for every sex-crazed man that walks through my church's doors.

I agree that men should be responsible for controlling their own lusts, because we are all responsible for our own sins. But let's also not forget that we should treat each other with brotherly love. Most women do not realize just how sexual men are by nature. This is not a character flaw, it is just part of their design, albeit a part that must be kept in check. Just as most women are emotionally centered, most men are physically centered. Asking a man to grow up and ignore temptations around him is the equivalent of asking a woman to grow up and stop being so sensitive about things. These sentiments do not promote empathy and we are called to love each other more than ourselves.

Some women, including my wife, will dive over the table for the last piece of a chocolate cake. I personally have no temptation issues regarding chocolate. If my wife is on a diet, it would not be Christ-like for me to order chocolate cake for dessert and eat it in front of her. Although I could say, "I don't see what the big deal is. She should not be so chocolate-crazed. Her weakness is not my problem." To me it's just dessert, but to her it is temptation and a stumbling block. The Christ-like thing for me to do would be to skip desert and remove all of the chocolate from the table.

Sure the pastor in question could have done other things to ease the temptation and some men would still find the opportunity to lust regardless of what the women were wearing, etc. But the loving woman will still not ignore the fact that she has the power to impact the level of that temptation with her wardrobe. The point in all of this is not to deny women any liberties, the point is simply to love each other enough to "take the chocolate off the table".

Romans 14:15-21, 1 Corinthians 8:8-13

Carla - you talk about men doing the "hard work of figuring out how to listen to her," but I don't think everyone can do that. I have a couple of good male friends who are battling their way out of sexual addictions, which are much more commom than you would think in our churches. Every day is a huge battle, and it would be nice if we females were aware of that and dressed accordingly.

I would suggest modesty as the guiding principle for females on how to dress. Of course, nowadays, I guess modesty has to be defined because everything in our culture is so individualistic. What I may suggest as modest, someone else will say is ridiculous. Basic teaching in the home as fallen by the wayside and what is considered acceptable in some cultural settings is not acceptable in others. For instance, in some African-American pentecostal or charismatic circles, it's not uncommon to see women with a decorative scarf draped across their legs if they're wearing shorter skirts. I currently atend a mostly white, suburban church and it's nothing to see women and girls in short skirts, flip-flops or strappy sandals with their feet all adorned, and cleavage showing. Even in some of the older women. In that environment, what would be considered inappropriate? As for the pastor asking women not to show cleavage on communion Sunday, he should have asked that they not do it at all. As if only one day of the week matters? Enough of my rant. I guess a good guide, would be for the woman to consider her audience and ask herself if anything she's wearing or not wearing could be a distraction and look at her outfit from a man's point of view.

So if I struggle with the sin of gluttony, is it okay for me to expect that my church no longer hold functions at which food is served? Or is it up to me to find ways to live faithfully in the face of temptation? What needs to change?

Look, I understand the point being made here and I agree that we need to be aware of how we present ourselves for the sake of our brothers and sisters. I'm not disagreeing with that point. But I have a hard time with the message that women need to do something about men's lust issues, especially when those issues are used as an excuse for not taking women seriously as leaders.

The Bible is very clear on this issue it says in 1st Corithians 8 v 9 Take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to them that are weak..v13 if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world stsndeth lest I make my brother to offend.
Even if the menfolk did not have a problem with lustful thoughts arrisng from improperly clad females, the Bible istructs us to everything decently and in order. It encourages us to be moderate in all things.
Why would a woman of God dress imodestly, what is the message she is sending accross to people; "I am a christian but I can still be sexy" or "I am a christian but I draw the line when it comes to my dressing, i surrender to Jesus but only partially" Come on folks lets just do what the master expects from us. The Bible says we are in the world but we are not of this world, let there be a distiction btw the believer and the unbeliever.

I find it strange that some women seem to take offense at the article.

Women should dress modestly and men should contain their lust. Both should happen simultaneously. The truth is women quite often dress very inappropriately these days and even in church.

Truth be told, chances are that most men in church will have more of their bodies covered than many women.

I suspect that this problem in this "debate" arises from differences in perception.

For instance, I know a guy with 6 daughters. He never allowed them to wear pants. We always expected he was a leg man. Another friend's daughters always wore high necked and sleeved tops. You can guess what we suspected was his particular preference.

I can wear a shirt that is perfectly modest (unless you're hanging from the ceiling looking down) with nothing showing. But a man who likes breasts can still tell I have them and have lustful thoughts. Who is at fault there? Or I can wear the same perfectly modest shirt and have a woman from a different generation think I'm some sort of painted hussy because she's judging me from standards of a different time.

I am often disturbed by statements that no one should be able to tell I have curves or see any skin. I agree that grace is not license to sin. I agree that I should be modest as a Christian woman, but grace says that the Holy Spirit can be my guide on that, not some other person.

Wow, even these posts are one-sided. What about the way some men dress? Skinny jeans and a muscle-revealing t-shirt? Nicely starched shirt with three buttons open? Is it our assumption that only men are tempted by physical attributes?

Modesty is more than what you're wearing, it's also an attitude. Frankly, if any pastor (and I am a female pastor) is focused on God, the rest falls by the wayside.

Keep this playing field level, please.

I am impressed by the mismatched, "just rolled out of bed" look effected by a number of church worship leaders. (I'm referring to the men, not the women.) What does the "rumpled worship guy" look say to those in the congregation? My iron broke; they cut off my electricity; I didn't have enough quarters for the laundromat; somebody stole my shampoo; I didn't hear the alarm. And then I lost my comb. I'm guessing Keith Urban led a workshop on grooming tips for church worship leaders, and they thought it was mandatory.

Children in Christian families need to be taught *from birth* to:

--Honor and respect one another, male and female, as made in God's image and equal heirs in grace. Which means never putting anyone down because of their gender nor treating him/her as a sex object, but valuing each individual for the unique contribution he/she offers the world and the Body of Christ.

--Treat one another as brothers and sisters in Christ in all things, see above.

--Dress modestly and decently, both boys and girls; parents buy the clothing so they simply should not buy immodest clothing (why do I see "Christian" teenage girls wearing bikinis? How do their parents allow this?)

--Put the well-being of others before yourself as taught by both Jesus and Paul

--Take responsibility for their own purity of mind and body. There's no way to completely insulate ourselves from our hyper-sexualized culture. But we can teach our boys and girls to analyze and reject the messages about sexuality that they see/hear as well as to make wise choices about what they view/listen to.

In my opinion, for children raised in Christian homes, at least, this will go a long way toward alleviating the need to have these conversations as adults. There are always those who become believers later in life and do not already understand these principles. But if the Body of Christ is already modelling them, it will be much easier to both teach and display them for new believers.

I see where Carla is coming from. Men are exposed to all sorts of images and people who are dressed immodestly every single day. What do they do then? Surely it is their responsibility to figure out how to control their thoughts in other-than-church-contexts. Why can't they use the same self-discipline in church? Not an excuse for immodestly dressed women, but I don't agree with putting the *blame* on the women, either, particularly (as Carla said) if it is simply a smokescreen for the real purpose of denying women full equality and/or leadership positions within the church.

ALSO, what if that immodestly dressed woman in church ISN'T A BELIEVER? It is unfair to expect unbelievers to behave in the same way as those who have been transformed by the grace of God. I'm pretty sure that telling her that she needs to dress differently would send her running from church, possibly forever. Is it worth it to turn someone away from the gospel?

Bottom line is that, no matter how modestly Christian women dress, men can never be guaranteed a "modesty safe-zone," and therefore must figure out a way to reign in their lust.

Has anyone ever given thought to why women dress this way? I've heard this same argument about dressing modestly for the past 30 years. Both genders are responsible for a kingdom culture. While I hear a lot about how a woman dresses and whether or not a man should control his lust, I rarely hear about valuing someone for their heart rather than their outward appearance. Single women are in a no win situation sometimes. They are charged with dressing modestly - but in truth- the modestly dressed young women are usually the ones who are sitting home without dates. I wonder how different our culture would be if men refused to date women who wore makeup, low cut or tight shirts,etc. The truth is our culture (even our Christian culture) rewards women for the way they look and criticizes them if they put on some pounds and "let themselves go." I am trying to teach my daughter and son to define "attractive" as "loves the Lord." It's both of their right and responsibility to think through this as Christ followers.

Some great points! So many things to echo and probably to clarify or rethink too. I think Phillip summed some things up pretty succinctly. It should be a both/and!

Carla makes a few great points as well. Women are not solely to blame. Men need to make adjustments. The answer to the solution is not simply women dressing modestly or men reigning in their thoughts. It's both. It is true, honest, life-giving partnership. A partnership that sees one another as equals in the sight of God. The only way any issue will be settled is if both sides move toward God's best. If both commit to reign in thoughts or to reign in attire whenever necessary.

And while I am dismayed by people who blame women for tempting men, I also know many honest, God-focused, truth-telling men who are trying as hard as they can to think higher of the women in their lives than our culture does. And while I am not suggesting we women wear burlap sacks or burkas to church, I do think we owe them our best efforts to help them out. For the guy who is trying his best, church should be a place where modesty reigns supreme. In a culture of half-naked billboards it seems to me that both genders can help one another out when we step into a worship space together. Whether edgy guys with pastor hair or women with short skirts. Both need to play fair for the good of the Kingdom.

I've been in ministry and on a platform for years. The dress code in churches has dropped and dropped, down to the naval, down to the breast, and men's jeans are falling too. It's sickening. Clean up the church, and quit being afraid to demand modesty, and people, stop fighting it!! There is sooo much lust in the church and on the platform it's disgusting. We are to be set apart, sanctified and holy.

Interesting!

The latest fashion trend in apparels today is the skinny jeans that give you a lean look. However, if you are unable to get into those, you would also be happy to put on those wide legged pants or trousers that are also hot with the fashionistas. When worn with a short narrow top and a slim fit jacket along with high heel shoes, this combination would look cool and give you that much longed for lean look.

Try it out this season!

In Deuteronomy 22:5 Say""The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God".Do not make your self abomination to the Lord your God.As for that pastor, he is not of God, in Colossians 2:8 the Bible says Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.A woman who has negative dress attitude will end up in disgrace.looking at what the Bible call shame of a woman in
Ezekiel 16:13-45 & Proverbs 7:1-27

MG: " I rarely hear about valuing someone for their heart rather than their outward appearance."

I believe I said that.

Thanks for much for this post! Can't wait to share with women in my Bible studies!

"Look at what you say without saying a word. Listen to what you say by how you look. Let God guide You by the WORD and keep you in His Way of salvation. I am not the one who changes your mind but I am the one who benefits from the change. Thank you for your words.

The bigger issue isn't whether a pastor should be standing on a riser while celebrating communion, or whether a man should go to church wearing a pressed, starched shirt with three buttons undone. The issue is that too many women are willing to believe lies about themselves. It seems they believe that they are worth more if they manage to attract more attention from men than other women are attracting. Also, that quality guys are attracted primarily to women who wear revealing clothing. Also, that church is a great place to prove your value as a woman by wearing revealing clothing. A woman's willingness to accept lies about her identity and value is what is most troubling.

This has been a facinating discussion. As a leader in my church I believe it is my responsiblity to consider the best I am giving to my God. Therefore, I need to consider His opinion on my clothing choices and then step forth in bold confidence that when I am pleasing to my Creator, that is all that truly matters.

As a pastor, I believe I am to be an example and a role model especially when I'm on the platform, but also when I'm not. In our area of the country, it's acceptable for male pastors to dress casually, not needing a tie or jacket, and even occasionally wearing shorts in the summer. However, it seems to me that women pastors still need to look "professional" in order to carry authority (you'd think the anointing would be enough) which usually ends up being some sort of business suit. Not a big deal, but an interesting observation, I think.

Another observation: I've seen some of our teen girls dress modestly in terms of everything being appropriately covered, but they still look like streetwalkers. So, really, isn't this a heart issue on both sides of the fence?

We all, male and female, need to be walking in the Spirit, and led by the Spirit. Let's not be a stumbling block, and let's not be an accuser. Men, take every thought captive, and women, seek the praise of the Lord, not the praise of men.

While asking a man to grow up and ignore temptations around him might be the equivalent of asking a woman to grow up and stop being so sensitive about things, it is plain to see that the responsibility lies in each man and woman. Each of us is responsible for our own sin - NO ONE ELSE is responsible for our sin. NO one.

Men are exposed to women who are dressed immodestly most every day. What do they do then? It is their responsibility to figure out how to control their thoughts no matter where they go. They can use the same self-discipline in church? This is not an excuse for Christian women dressed immodestly, but ultimately the responsibility for ones thoughts is ones self!

We need to stop using 1 Corinthians 8:9 so far out of context

Every immodestly dressed woman at church isn't necessarily a Christian - what if she's a visitor?? There is no real way "take ALL the chocolate off the table".

All this talk makes me wonder how some Christians think naked or nearly unclothed tribes of people were ever witnessed to and saved. Surely, every missionary wasn't a woman.

I think part of the reason men are having such a problem is a misinterpretation of Jesus's words, "If any man looks on a woman to lust after her, he has committed adultery with her in his heart."

From what I've read, the word "to" is very important there, and a lot of translations miss it. Jesus' words actually carry a meaning of intent: "if a man looks on a woman with the intent to lust, or in order to lust." Simply feeling attracted to a woman is not a sin! Simply noticing that she's pretty or that she has a nice body is not a sin!

I think people, maybe especially men, find themselves in an impossible situation when they believe that verse means they are to feel nothing when they look at anyone of the opposite sex (other than a spouse).

Some of what we're seeing is the reaction to that impossible standard. By turning *intent* into momentary physical attraction we perpetuate misogyny, as men find themselves unable to stop feelings that are purely natural and normal and thinking that Christ has forbidden all such feelings.

It's easy, then, to blame women for just being women when a normal reaction to the presence of a woman is considered sin.

"We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ."
II Cor. 10:5

thanks for this msg.i paused to repent while reading through,cos i was struggling with God just last week about my dressing,saying men too should be self controlled.but now i see i was wrong,i should first especially as a xtian first,then a leader.thanx sister

Obviously churches shouldn't have to hand out dress codes to their members or visitors but how can you have a voice on the issue without seeming like a prude. Church can be a place where a man (or woman)can be tempted. Years ago in the summer I remember visiting a large midwest church where casual attire was the norm. I saw shorts on some women there that left little to the imagination. It was like Daisy Duke and her friends went to church that Sunday.

this encouraging,the bible teaches us about moderation
infact in my country nigeria we are encorage to dress more african while coming to church ,because it goes with almost all parts of the body covered properly.
the preacher is human,so he is not an Island we need each other support in this race

I agree modesty is lost, when I first came to the church I had no "church clothes". I played the guitar at a funeral service because the pastor couldn't find anyone. She commented you can't wear that skirt. I cried inside because, I wore my very best. We need to teach about modesty but that is taught by the example, not condemnation.I think it is wonderful to see a women look her very best, the person she was created to be, purity of heart and honesty, stand up and preach. When the Holy Spirit moves He will do the filleting of the fish, a man could get excited just to see an ankle, I know I can thrill my husband with mine. I struggled with this topic for years, I even went to the opposite side and refused to wear make up and dressed unprofessionally. When the Lord said "you can't control what they think, and you are beautifully wonderfully made. I stand and preach the Word from a pure heart, and I don't judge those that look at me, nor do I lead them into temptation, for many have been convicted and healed by looking at a beautiful women.
I also have my husband give me a silent approval of my dress code.

This is a huge one, but I don't see why it has to be. I'm falling along Carla's line, that to say "lust is a huge issue for men" is an incredible excuse. It completely lets men off the hook for even thinking those thoughts, and enables them to get away with it!

I've struggled with the whole modesty issue myself, and have come to the conclusion that I'm not responsible for how a man chooses to think. The fact is, he made that choice, regardless of whether or not he was "tempted" by what I was wearing. I could dress like a nun, with only face and hands showing, and a man could still think lustful thoughts about me as I passed. Even with everything covered, am I still responsible for him "going there"?

This is an amazing discussion. Men and women struggle with this issue and we all need to consider each other. In a strange way, the Muslims consider modesty to be honoring and protecting for their women (even though they are overly legalistic). Our culture preaches that women only have value if they are "sexy." If I were a young single male, I would not hesitate to look for a woman who dresses modestly. And I think God for a beautiful wife who does not feel the need to show herself to everyone but is always attractive and classy in her appearance.

For another way of looking at dress... try this on for size

http://www.layman.org/carmensblog/09-08-18/Report_Out_of_Africa_Part_6_Seeing_myself_through_other_eyes.aspx

Be blessed to be a blessing,
Renee

(friend of Carmen's, and yes, proud of her)

This is a great discussion. My rule of thumb is that when in doubt (when I look in the mirror at what I just put on) don't wear it. The way I dress is a reflection of how I feel about myself. It is okay to dress up for church or not, but make sure your heart, your actions, and your intentions are pleasing to God. If I see a christian looking down on someone else because they don't think they are dressed up enough in church, I get that sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. The same one that makes visitors or onlookers to our faith run away very fast. Are we so shallow that we cannot see past what someone is wearing? Do we talk behind their back or do we kindly mention something to them directly in a kind way. I serve in the children's ministry and also in outreach to the homeless. I have talked to the girls in my class when they wear short skirts and let them know they should consider how they want to be viewed. I leave it up to them. The homeless don't care what I am wearing, only that I am kind and helpful to them.

This is why the Lord told us to "take every thought captive". He knew what a battlefield the mind would be for each of us. Joyce Meyer has a great book called "the Battlefield of the Mind", if anyone is interested. Really if each of us fights this constant spiritual warfare each day, as we must, we don't have time really to criticize each other....only remembering to pray for one another. The world is saturating us on every front with evil things and we need to put on the whole armor of God and do battle!

The obvious remedy for the problems identified in the article and by many of those who have commented is for churches to develop official dress codes for all members, especially women. There need to be clear regulations concerning clothing. Genuine Bible-believing Christians should pay no attention to worldly clothing trends or styles. If they were encouraged to make this choice, ideally, regulations would not be needed. However, it should be clear that no female member of Christ's church should be interested in worldly criteria of glamour or attractiveness. And certainly no woman who is 'beautiful' by worldly standards should be permitted to hold a leadership position in any genuine Christian church.

A good model for proper Christian dress can be seen in the Duggar family's clothing on their TV show. If all women in Christian churches dressed in such a way, articles like this would be unnecessary. The very concept of 'attractiveness" has no place in the life of any Christian.

This article is one more example of how Christians continue to be led by the world.
I personally find that a lot of what is exposed is not as attractive as one would hope. Please spare us all and cover it up!

Jimmy!! No no no. ("What the church needs is a dress code") Or were you just joking? This is how Satan has been ruining the church for centuries. He loves to take the moving of the Spirit and replace it with a rule so that every one else can get along without any dependence on the Spirit. We have churches full of rules where God cannot work because the people don't want to do the hard stuff and let the Spirit renew their minds.

Very interesting conversation.

I agree with those who said that both men and women are responsible for their thoughts and their actions (including their dress) and how it impacts those around them. Being a Christian is not about exercising our rights to do what we please, but thinking about those around us too, and loving them as we love ourselves, right? So if my clothing is causing a man to sin in his thoughts, I should be willing to wear more modest clothing, even if I feel it's silly, for the sake of this man. Out of love.

But the men shouldn't be pointing fingers and demanding that the women dress more modestly either. It is their responsibility to deal with their thoughts.

As someone else said, noticing someone's beauty is not sin; choosing to entertain thoughts is, and you can sit in church entertaining thoughts about a woman in a burka, wondering what she looks like underneath!

As for attractive women not preaching lest they distract the men, well, what about attractive men not preaching?
My husband is a pastor, and a drop-dead-gorgeous one at that. (not boasting here.. lol) Female friends of mine have told me he could be a male model, and I agree.
Should he then be banished from the pulpit because the girls might be distracted by his looks? Should we only put "ugly" people on the pulpit? What if those "ugly" people are attractive to some members of the congregation, and they find it hard to listen to the message?

I think we have a problem if we start banning good looking (in worldly/natural standards)people from the pulpit. And we have a problem when we impose a dress code.
Christians, as we become more mature, should be less concerned with these issues and more concerned with people's hearts, including our own.

As this post was originally about how women in ministry should dress, I think the issue of "rights" and maturity should no longer be one. A woman in leadership is a servant, both of God and of those she is leading, so she is not concerned with her right to wear whatever she likes, but she will be more concerned with not offending her fellow men/women, and giving glory to Christ, whom she serves.

Yeah, I think pastors should be the ones who go out of the way to walk the extra mile when it comes to maturity and self-control. Of course, they will still have "thorns in the flesh" and temptations, but they should be the ones who lead the congregation with their example of self-control and love, not expect everyone else to take the first step.

Church "dress code"? No. Teaching? Yes. I doubt anyone would defend showing midriff/navels & "cleavage" & almost-up-to-the-underwear skirts as being "modest" in line with our Bible guide. And so, instruction in righteous living should include telling the truth, loving one another, being kind, AND dressing modestly (not just in church).

While men need to exercise self-control, my sympathies are with them when the women and girls around dress in a way that not too long ago showed up only on pop-singers and moviestars and in "men's magazines".

ladies, our brothers could have come across enough billboards with different levels of dressed girls. As they come to the Lord's house, they need to find refuge, a place where they can concentrate on God without as much distraction as the world outside.
Let not your meat be a tumbling block to the brother for whom Christ died.
Dress smart, decent. Let the Holy spirit lead you even in your dressing.
Very interesting debate!

For myself, I have always felt the need to be modest in my dress, however over the years I am finding that clothing designers more often than not, tend to make clothes for women...very low cut. [And as I age, it really is a challenge trying to find clothing that supports our choice of modesty.]

It seem as though no one noticed that the church APPLAUDED when the pastor asked the ladies to dress appropriately. That is a pretty important point if you ask me. I recently visited a church where so many women where dressed like it was a Friday night at the bar. It is so sad to see so many grown women dress this way and that so many parents let there teens dress like this. I for one think that pastors need to address the issue on how men and women should dress. It is not the ladies fault that men lust but we sure don't need to give them full access to our assets. This to me is just encouraging them to continue. I am speaking as a wife whose husband has had issues with lust.

I feel sad that such counsel as this has to be put in an apologetic manner. She who has ears to hear, let her hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who has ears to hear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

Wonderful article and great points. I once heard a sermon where this was talked about. He did a great job of admonishing the women on their dress. Then, he turned to the men and asked them to "please pull up their pants". That brought a lot of laughter and amens.

Back to your article, should we feel ashamed when we see and admire a rainbow? How about a beautiful maple tree changing colors in the fall? No, we don't feel shame. We are simply admiring what God has created. How more wonderful when we can be mature enough to feel no shame when admiring women. After all, God created them too. I'm not using that as an excuse to "lust" after a woman. Rather, it is an attempt to reorder our thoughts toward a more pure thought process and not feel shame.

Very iteresting debate and I am surprised at some female responses. Speaking as a women, I am still fascinated that young girls and women too seem to think they have the RIGHT to dress as revealing as they want, and that men are just supposed to control their natures and rise above everything. We have a casual dress service in our church on Saturday evenings, and in the summer it is not uncommon to see young women dressed in the shortest of shorts and very barely there tops. One of these young ladies is now an unwed mother with a young child. Might she have become pregnant even if she didn't dress that way - quite likely. But I can't help but feel that to dress in a revealing manner is still a conscious or unconscious desire for attention which may have disastorous consequences. Everyone (male and female) needs to take responsibility for their behaviour, I am so glad the congregation applauded!

As for this discussion, we have missed the most important concept of making disciples, if we think rules and regulations are going to transform the thinking or actions of men and women. We are to teach the Word of God, which has an awesome power and ability to transform the heart and thinking of all men and women, then we mave missed the mark. Disciples are made, not born. We (the church) must take on Christ's attributes when teaching people, instead of critizing and judging them. If we teach the Word of God we will have disciples with a transformed mind (thoughts) and an indewelling of the Holy Spirit.

Very few people have really gotten down to the point I was trying to make: Christians should so reject the world, worldly things, and certainly worldly clothing styles that churches should not need to establish dress codes. A dress code is a poor substitute for a conscientious Christian choice to shun the world; however, I think it is better than nothing at all. I note that one reader (a clergyman's wife!) could actually characterize her own husband as 'gorgeous' and attractive to women. Such a sentiment makes my point far better than I have.

As for specifics, Christian women's clothing should be long, loose, unflattering, and modest.No high heels, no bathing suits,no shorts, nothing that any person could regard as 'sexy.' No concession to fashion is appropriate.And I do not simply rfer to what may be worn in church. Such conduct should be required of Christian women no matter where they are or what they are doing. Of course clothing choices don't ensure righteousness but they support it by marking the distance, that should be both wide and deep, between Christians and the world.

I believe that many of the commenters have missed the point of this article. Especially the comment, "an excuse for finding ways to keep women from ever being seen as fully human and fully equal". We all know that there are rules and guidelines of appropriate dress, for both sexes. A single women looking for a romantic relationship will wear more revealing clothes and more make-up to attract the interest of single men. However, she would be able to be much more revealing in her dress in a night club on Saturday night than she would be allowed to at her work or at church. We would all mostly agree with this statement. What then is the reason for a married women to wear revealing clothes in public while not with her spouse? If she worn very revealing cloths, all the other women would say she was 'loose' and looking for someone to be unfaithful with. Right? Okay but what about a little revealing? Is she just a little 'loose' and a little interested in being unfaithful? Some would say yes. However, we must go to the reason for
certain dress and behavior to truly understad this issue. What is the purpose of pornography? To stimulate the viewer via extremely revealing situations and to cause the watcher to want to have sex. What is the reason to show several inches of cleavage along with the inner sides and bottom of breasts and/or to wear a dress just three to four inches below her hips and so very tight that it appears ready to rip? I would say to also stimulate the desire in another to want to have sex with the wearer, or to be a tease to some and available to others, in the least. Either way she is causing stimulation and lustful desire in another. Most people are in agreement with me so far. Here is where the difference really comes out. Many commenters have mentioned St. Pauls first
letter to the Corinthian's. I would direct you ladies to go back and read the entire letter to get the necessary points pertaining to this subject-You will be amazed! We must also understand what is the reason to go to church in the very first
palce. We are supposed to go to church to worship the Creator of the universe, His Son our Savior and the Holy Spirit the lord and giver of life! We ask for forgiveness and seek assistance to overcome daily sin and troubles. No where in this description is any room for revealing and/or stimulating dress! Just the opposite is true! It is a sin to cause another to lust/sin. This is stated so as to lay out the framework for responsible behavior and dress as well as Christian order. Now just because the letter is written by a man and not another women doesn't mean that it should be dismissed altogether either. Why do I say say an inflammatory comment? because you women and most men first know that there are guideline for proper dress. We know it is there because we are often the first to mention another's infaction of the guideline rules! How many times have you said or even told your daughter, wow, she must be 'loose or not that nice of a lady' for wearing that here? How many times have you complained that the women working with your husband look 'loose and easy' because they are wearing clothes that are too revealing for work? How many times have you said to your teenaged daughter 'no you may not look like a tramp and wear that to school'? See the guideline rules do exist. However, because some of us want everything our way; we are willing to cloud the issue by denying the existence of the guidelines, marginalize the men for looking, and/or point out some other poor behavior, all just to excuse our questionable actions and infraction of the guidelines. 'Its okay if I look a bit revealing or provocative after all I look real good for my age'. 'It's okay for my girlfriend to dress up and look smoking hot, as long as she is out with me'! I am going to wear my new 'revealing top' to get Mr. Hottie to take notice of me and my cleavage'! See, this is only a few of the many basic forms of the guidelines that do exist in all of us, both male and female. ' Next we must ask who is it we are attempting to look provocative for at church? Our spouse? That cute single guy up front? It is okay if we go to night clubs to look a bit revealing to 'pick up' the opposite sex, however this behavior is completely wrong in church according to just about every guideline there is! I then wonder if we know the real reason to look
revealing is to cause another to be stimlutated and then to lust. Why, when you are married , why do you want to look as if you are looking for someone to be unfaithful with- especially in church. Again, St. Paul tells us that to cause another to lust is a sin. No it isn't just a sin for the ladies either. No it doen't take locations or time of year into play. No it doesn't say it is wrong just because God wants to take all the fun out of living. There are key reasons for it to state that lust is a sin and to cause another to lust is a sin. For those of you who haven't or won't read the above letter to the Corinthians (1Corinthians 6:19-20 & 1Corinthians 8:9 & 1 Corinthians 11:5-16 & 1Corinthians 14:34-36), I will paraphrase for space. Your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit so glorify God in your body. Because your body belongs to God, clothe your body appropriately. You need to not cause another to fall into sin by any action or mixed message your actions give off. Again, don't cause another to lust because of the way you are dressed. Women should have their head covered while in church, to show that they have an symbol of authority on their head. The authority that is referred to is either a womens father or her husband. It was for man that women were made. Man was not made for women. Man was made in the image and glory of God, women were made in the glory of man and that is why she has a symbol authority on her head while in church. She should also remain quiet in church and later ask her husband at home if she had a question.
This Christian order is for the purpose of organization and 'for the sake of the angels' according to St. Paul. Now, we have two choices either believe every single word in the Bible as the very word of God or pick and choose whatever works
for us and our situation. Either way there is no mention of revealing and provocative dress while in church. This isn't about keeping women down and in their place-either. It' s simple renforcement that there is a time and place for everything including looking a bit revealing for the reason to attract, to stimulate another into sexual relations, or to personally show-off, or to show-off one's spouse to another. Because we are dealing with issues of the soul, no one, man or women can wear provocative dress that causes another to lust, regardless of the location, and we can't dismiss the lusting with a "oh well, I can't control the men's emotions"-wink wink! I thank God that I
am a Christian and not a Muslim. I do not see any need to cover women head to toe in order to prevent another from lusting. However, I do say that we all need to check our guideline rule book and to be sure we dress appropriately at all times so as to not mislead and cause another to lust! There are your two choices, get back to the basics of the rule guidelines or cover our women head to toe. Additionally we need to have the men always clothed in multi-layers and never go without a shirt. I choose the return to the basic's and I hope you do so also. You may e-mail me your comments and opinions.Thanks and God bless!

Roy Twogood Jr
Director@olinepublishing.com
http://olin.tk

Concerning a point that Jim made (about women should wear long loose clothing) makes me think about Jesus' teaching that we shouldn't even look on a woman an lust after her. I always thought that women during the time of Christ wore such clothing. If that's true why would Jesus say not to do look on her in such a way?

If clothing would take care of that situation Jesus would not have had to warn us men. It seems, therefore, that the bigger issue deals with us men and where are our hearts?

The incident took place during the communion. How should it be when it happened during the laying of hands & working of the Holy Spirit? We need enormous blankets to hide the sensitive parts. How God covered Adam & Eve with animal skin instead of leaves made by two. Maybe the church needs outpouring of the Holy Spirit. Godbless.

I didn't realise what a hornets nest would be raised by this article and was surprised by all the comments. As an Asian woman growing up with a 'western' background I wore many styles including minis (in the sixties-/seventies)! I thnk the whole point is not passing on blame or what our rights are but simply asking ourselves (men and women alike)"does what I wear please God?" I feel convicted that we do need to think about what we wear at all times but especially if we speak at church. As many have mentioned it's not just about 'me' but "Will be a stumbling block to another?" Also am I setting an example to younger women? I don't think the article states anywhere that we can't be beautiful and smart or well dressed....but rather "Am I sensual in the way I dress and will I cause another to be tempted?

As Paul has stated eating meat may not be a sin but if it causes another to stumble then I will do without it.

I don't think we women need to be so defensive!!
sal, sri lanka

I'm very concerned that this kind of article will continue to make women responsible for men's behavior. I do understand that both men and women can go to extremes in the way they dress. However men need to take responsibility for their thoughts and their actions and cannot blame women for their thought life. As others have suggested, if the pastor has a problem with what he sees from his position atop of the stairs he should come down and find a solution for HIS problem. Was it Betsheba's fault that David saw her while she was bathing or was it David's attitude and lack of self control?

Instead of the church telling people what to wear we need to concentrate on speaking about attitudes that are pleasing to God and seeking His holiness and not just external signs that can be very deceptive. If we start hiding our bodies there will never be an end to how much we have to hide.

Maybe women who are showing more than they need to are looking for attention of some sort and they are getting it... Let's think of the true bottom of the problem and we will see that it has less to do with clothing than what we think...

Jesus said, "To the pure all things are pure. This should not be a sex power issue. We are all responsible to abide in God's Word. The way I see it there are two types of people in the Church. Those who call themselves Christians and those who walk with the Lord. The first thing I think when I see a women revealing in her attire or a man that leaks pride and machisma I begin tp pray for them because obviously there is a breakdown in their walk with the Lord. We can't change people only God can. We tend to be more compassionate with new believers saying things like, "we'll catch them and God will clean them but we don't have compassion and grace for the rest of the body. We need to be a prayerful people. I've there done that till the Spirit got a hold of me. This is a blind spot for many a women. It"s better got gets a hold of them because if another person tells them there will be resentment and posibilly back sliding or apostacy. I come from grace, compassion and prayer. I think that's where God would want us to come from.
Blessings,
Nuri

Wow, so many comments. I haven't taken the time to read them all, but have seen some really good points in some of them. However, I need to add some of my own. I have never felt the need to dress in a revealing way. I have always managed to dress nice and look my best.. no loose fitting, dowdy looking clothes for me. I always want to look my best, and do not dress frumpy nor do I dress revealing. I have been involved with both children and youth ministries over the last few years. I am single, but when a man is attracted to me, I want it to be for what he sees on the inside, not because of the revealing clothes I am wearing. And yes, I have been asked out on several occasions but am still single because I refuse to settle. I wear shorts, but at a modest length. I wear nicely fitted clothes, no cleavage or too tight sweaters. My church has casual dress and at times I am shocked by some of the clothes worn by single women, and young girls. There is no need to dress this way just because we can. As a Christian woman I believe we should dress the same when we go out to a casual party, as we would when we attend church. The men who are tempted by revealing clothes in church would be tempted even more outside the walls of a church. I am not taking the blame away from the men, but I do want to ask the women who dress this way, why they feel the need to do so? Aren't we called to be witnesses for Christ? It is more important to watch how we behave and dress when we aren't in church than while we are worshipping? Is it our intent to lure the men in with our revealing dress so we can lead them to Christ? I know that is an absurd question, but some of the way Christians dress and/or behave outside of church is just as absurd. As far as the comment about the young woman being too attractive to be a minister.. when God leads us into the ministry, we need to concentrate on His leading. She can dress nice, but dress appropriately. She shouldn't have to cover herself from head to toe, or dress dowdy, if a man can't listen to her because of her beauty, then he needs to do some serious soul searching with God. If an attractive young woman feels ok with wearing revealing clothing while in the pulpit, then she needs to do some serious soul searching, is she there because of God's calling or to be the center of attention. In today's world, so full of sexy this and sexy that, we, as Christians, need to be more aware of what we wear and how we behave.

I think there needs to be a distinction drawn between a woman wearing clothing that is attractive as opposed to revealing. A Christian woman should dress modestly not only in Church but anywhere else in public. However this does not mean she should not dress in attractive and feminine clothes. I have no problem with this and if a woman dressing in such a way causes a man to lust, that is HIS problem. Dressing seductively and revealingly, however, is another matter altogether and that is where the woman needs to take responsibility.

When my wife goes to Church or anywhere in public, I like her to be dressed attractively but that does not mean to be dressed provacatively or inappropriately. There is a huge difference!

Jim, Women during the time of Christ wore such clothing. If a new set of dress code rules would solve the problem then Jesus would have given one. Why did Jesus say not to look on a woman in order to lust after her? Because the problem is internal, not external.

If "fig leaves" were the answer, God wouldn't have had to shed blood to cover Adam and Eve.

In our choice of clothing or our choice to lusting, we choose to be led by the flesh or the Spirit.

Jim, how do you think mostly naked tribes of people were ever witnessed to and saved? I think the missionaries who shared the Gospel with them were being led by the Spirit and not by the flesh.

We can't return to extra-biblical rules and laws like Pharisees.

If God made Sally "a head turner" and called her to preach, then He can handle the men He draws to hear her, the places He sends her, and how He leads her to dress while she does it. Sounds like your friend was giving a subtle message that he wouldn't be be able to consistently focus on the message without the hard work of capturing his thoughts.

I'm glad that your other friend's pastor admitted his weakness for peeking down into ladies blouses - but I totally disagree with him holding those women responsible for making the change in their behavior. He is the one who needs to step down off that top step and look his sisters in the eye for a change! He can't expect every womn he meets to accommodate him on this. Christians will never be free from tempting circumstances until we leave this world.

We are each responsible for our own lust. We are each supposed to be following the leading of the Holy Spirit.

We can not be the Holy Spirit for others. We can confess our faults to one another, thus opening their eyes to the temptations others deal with - as your friend did about Sally.

My family attended a church with a dress code like the Duggers for several years. The church disintegrated after one of the leading men (husband and father to eleven children all covered from neck to ankle) was found to be hooked on porn.

I feel with the priviledge of leading women comes responsibility. For me it is about honoring God in my dress. Our young girls and even women in their 40s & 50s stand before a congregation or small group with undergarments exposed. I am responsible for the example I set for the women I have the priviledge to minister to. My pray is that with the example I set and as our relationship grows I will be able to instruct those women in dressing modestly. Often we do not realize what others see when they look at us. We have a generation that desperately needs to be taught how to dress in a modest manner and still be fashionable. I'm thankful I came across this article. I now plan to do a fashion show for our young women on dressing modestly but fashionably. We can go back and forth about this issue and how men respond but ultimately what is important is that we all seek to honor God in all we do, say, think and wear.

Dear Tracey,
Thanks for putting these thought in words. In this 21st century very few really looking how modest a christian lady look like. For greater is the temptation to confirm with the latest fashion by which we make ourselves as well as many to fall into the trap of Satan who is going round like a prouling lion.
For a long time I thought that I am exceptional because many considered me as old fashioned and unfit for the public. I am glad to see crowd of ladies thinking like me. I would surely pass on this article in my church and pray that specially youth will rethink of their way of dressing specially those who go to the pulpit.

Wow! We just had this discussing in our ladies Bible study class and found that some of the Bible references used above (and that are used in this debate elsewhere) have been taken out of context. We should always rightly divide the Word. After studying what God has to say, we concluded that:

It is a heart issue between me and God.

I have to take the log out of my own eye first, remember? My thoughts need to be on what GOD wants from me and to be concerned with my worship of HIM. If I am concerned with my worship of HIM, then I won't be tempted to worry or talk about anyone else's appearance... anywhere.

Another conclusion:

If it is too sexy for me to wear to church, then it is too sexy for me to wear anywhere.

How about simply teaching "classy dressing" with an "employment" fashion show at the church. Don't emphasize modesty as a "church" thing. Emphasize it as a "career" thing. Then, many of your congregation will move to a classier set of outfits. Congregations have their own fashion sense - intentionally modify yours.

Interesting article and comments.

I've so enjoyed all your comments. Interesting - especially since I was raised in a church where your sleeves (men, women, children) had to at least cover your elbows. And, heaven forbid, no sandals. No wedding rings - or jewelry of any kind. No pants - ever! I'm now 62 y/o but it took years of work to break free from that bondage. However, I still believe my parents are the 2 more perfect parents ever. They are 87 today and still picking up people to take to church - to the doctor - for grocery shopping. Awesome people. i just don't agree with their dress code.

Wonder why the pastor during communion) felt the need to stand above everyone? A woman could wear something modest - except maybe when someone is standing over her. Was he trying to feel more important?

I will admit that when our "praise team" is standing up there on Sunday mornings, I am concerned about the mini-skirts, see-through blouses, midriff showing, and spagetti strap/braless women. Why would they even think that's appropriate? They wouldn't wear that to work. Maybe part of the "dress-up" part that someone already mentioned. Can't figure out why the pastor would not address it at Praise Team practice. Modesty is mentioned in the Bible.

I do agree that women and men's attire can call attention to certain area's of the body if we wear revealing and/or tight clothing. That shouldn't be our message ever - whether at work, church, or shopping. We should be dressed in love, kindness, patience, etc. That goes for men also.

Jan

Think Proverbs 11:22 when you watch this!

Courtesy of ChristianClips.com

or follow this link if short clip won't start!
http://www.christianclips.com/videos/skits/Dressing_like_Christians

Jim, you say:
I note that one reader (a clergyman's wife!) could actually characterize her own husband as 'gorgeous' and attractive to women. Such a sentiment makes my point far better than I have.

That reader was me. I'm afraid you missed the point I was trying to make by mentioning my husband and his looks. I was trying to illustrate the point that women also notice men, and if you are going to banish good looking women (notice I said "from a worldly/natural view")from the pulpit because the men may be distracted by their looks, you might as well banish good looking men for the same reason. Women have eyes that notice the looks of men too.
I don't understand how I made your point better than you could. Are you trying to say we shouldn't notice the attractiveness of human beings? Is it ok for me to describe my husband as gorgeous?

You go on to say:

Jim, I can agree with your last sentence, almost. I believe we, as a church, ought to be noticeably different, but the main difference ought to be how we see and value people. A beggar or a prostitute should be able to walk into a church and feel welcome, not judged. Christians should view other people as image bearers of God, not as objects to lust after or to provoke to lust.
A man should be able to find solace in church, away from all the ads, clothes shop windows, magazine stalls, etc...
A woman should find refuge from the harsh scrutiny of her body that goes on in the world, freedom from needing to look perfect, and valued for the person she is, not seen as a sexual object.
So yeah, the church should shun the ways of the world, but mainly in it's treatment of people.

Someone else said that what we wear is an issue of the heart. Change begins in the heart. No amount of rules or codes are going to change a person's heart, and it's the motives in the heart that will lead a person to do or not do something.

If women are allowing the Word to renew their minds, they won't want to be a stumbling block to men, and they will dress accordingly. But notice that Paul didn't forbid wearing dresses, but said that the beauty of a woman should be that of the hidden person of the heart. Do you see that?
Peter,in the 3rd chapter of his first letter is not telling women to wear sackcloth and shun fashion, but to focus on the heart, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit.
We make a big mistake and miss the point when we turn everything into rules and regulations.

When our minds are renewed, men should look at women and see sisters in Christ and honor them as such, not desire their bodies and lust after them, and this should happen no matter how they are dressed, don't you think?

This is not to say that modesty is unimportant. Modesty is one aspect of being chaste and pure. The older women are instructed to teach the younger ones in these matters, and I think they will have done the largest part of the job by modeling purity, reverence and chastity to the younger generations, in a way that is visibly from the heart.

This reply got really long!

People come on - this isn't a new problem. remember sodom and gmorha (know I spelled that wrong)...there was lusting going on all over the place then. It just goes to say that clothing (or lack therof) doesn't seem to be the problem but people. Why do you think the pornograpy industry is so big?! Its a personal fight that only thru the strength of God can be cured.

Many comments, but in the end, what's in the heart matters. Can you imagine what will be our apparels in heaven. Of course, the cloths of righteousness belonging to our Lord Jesus. Could we practice now while we are on earth what we should be like in heaven? Godbless

How can men be entrusted with running the church - the body of Christ - and serving as the head of families if they are incapable of controlling their own smallest appendage? Control and purity starts at home, guys.

You are right on Padolina! As Christians we are to be led by the Holy Spirit and when we are, these issues do not become a problem. Our whole nature changes, sin becomes repulsive to us , just like drinking sour milk or eating a rotten egg. With the Holy Spirit, we are led into cloths of righteousness,almost without us being aware.We grow the fruits of the Spirit in us.Read Galatians 5.22-23.In our Church we aggressively discern spiritual gifts in people and make sure that, they are used, as God intended . Our most gifted teacher on theology and insight into God`s word is a women and she teaches from the pulpit as often as we can get her to. The result has been many people being led into righteousness. see Daniel 12.3. We need to quit being babies on milk and take on task before us , practice on earth like we are in Heaven .Work together, women and men, utilize our gifts that God gave us. The greatest sin one can commit is to stifle a God given gift in someone. Read Matthew 12.31-32. You become responsibly for impeding the growth of Gods kingdom. The need for spiritual growth is completely Churches.

As a pastor for over 20 years, I have dealt with this dilemna by wearing a clergy robe in the pulpit every Sunday. The wearing of robes is optional and not very common in my denomination, and some churches have never had a pastor who wears a robe, but they become accustomed to it with me. I have always dressed conservatively at work (church) during the week as well. However, I finally realized that I was trying to dress in such a way to get people to take me seriously, so the Lord has given me more freedom to incorporate more bright colors and feminine styles into my clothing. However, I am still modest, just not as serious in my dress.
The clergy robe is the answer for me when it comes to preaching and leading worship.

This discussion makes me think of the woman who was caught in the very act of adultry and was dragged out to the feet of Jesus and surrounded by those ready to stone her for her sin. Odds are they didn't give her a blanket to cover up in, so this woman was thrown naked at Jesus feet. He didn't tell her to run home, put on some modest clothes and then come to Him. He ministered to her and to her accusers just as she was.

In the same way, He did not send the prostitute home who came to worship Him pouring ointment on His feet, telling her to change first and then come to worship. He loved her for who she was and for her heart. It was the Pharisees who condemned her.

Not one of us can know where another person is in their relationship with the Lord and none of us has the right to judge what someone else should or should not be focused on. Our only mandate in the Bible is to love God and love one another with the love that He has shown to us.

I was a Christian for almost a year and half before God started dealing with me about my appearance, there were other things in my life far more important than how I was perceived on the outside that took precedence in our relationship. And I am thankful today that no one felt like they had the right or responsibility to condemn me for my clothing.

"If your heart does not condemn you, you have favor before God." Not if your brother or sister does not condemn you, but if your own heart does not condemn you. We should seek the favor of God and to love one another no matter where we are in our walks with the Lord. Just because He has dealt with you in an area does not mean that He has dealt with everyone else in the same manner. He approaches each of us individually and loves us exactly where we are at and He expects the same of us - to love, purely and completely.

The Holy Spirit has given me awesome role models of women in leadership and they have taught by word and deed how to dress and why they choose to dress the way they do. They helped me consider many things in my attire and showed me that modest can mean different things in different settings.

For instance - while a silk blouse and nice calf length skirt may be great for preaching, it's not the best thing to wear if you are in a prayer line and the Spirit of God moves and you fall to the floor. Silk is hard to keep in place. And if you're the one ministering and laying hands on people who may fall under the power of the Spirit, that same skirt that covered everything on the platform, leaves nothing to the imagination as you step over people and make your way around a room. An outfit that is fine when standing on floor level, may not be appropriate on the platform and in certain lighting a perfectly modest shirt, may become completely see through.

Modesty is subjective and can be determined by so many things, including our attitudes, that it is vital that in all things we put love first.

Great discussion. I've dealt with this issue a lot lately, as in the church I go to the pastor's wife has taken it upon herself to be the fashion-Nazi control police for the women and girls, and the church is nearly empty and hanging on by a thread as a result.
It's true that many fashions today are downright pornographic, but I've seen modest clothing websites that serve up stuff that looks like it belongs on Little House on the prairie, and that's the other side of ridiculous. there are many things to consider--if I wear multi layered clothing on a 100 degree day I am risking heat exhaustion. That being said, I believe in covering breasts, buttocks, belly and thighs, and not wearing clothing so tight it looks like its painted on. But if my ankles and shins are a turn on, then the other person has the problem not me.

Thanx 4 listening

With all the latest trends in fashion, a woman could be half dressed and it still would be acceptable in the secular world......but what does it say about her.
I for one have been on both sides. I have dressed very modest (frumpy) to the point, I felt very uncomfortable when men looked at me, and I also have dressed in such a way that I have seen the male church goers take a second look.
Dressing "frumpy" does not keep the MEN from looking; I believe it makes MEN more curious. I say this because of the comments made when I have dressed in a "comfortable" manner for me and my Husband. I have also had the experience of having a Pastor of a church talk directly to my chest; it was so noticeable that I had to cover up with my bible and folder and has happened on many occasions. Needless to say we don’t attend that church anymore.
It is a shame that men can use such an excuse, and literally say it was her fault, "look at the way she dresses".
It seems it is the man that has the problem, and not just in church.... and to say it is because it is how they are designed is a true cop-out. Men are who need to get them selves under control!
Its hard in this day and age because clothing designed for men is simple and well designed, women’s clothing on the other hand has been made to be attractive, sexy and form fitting, because that’s what MEN want to see THEIR women in.
What is one MANS sin, is not necessarily every MANS sin....to say that men suffer is a farce....what about we women who have to suffer because we cant wear some thing we really like to wear, because some man may look at me with unclean thoughts.
I think most responsible women will agree, it really doesn’t matter what you wear its how you carry yourself. We are shunned because we want to wear cute workout clothes, acceptable clothes to work, fashionable clothing out for entertainment, my goodness even if we wear jeans its a turn on.... I will say it again it is Men who need to get them selves under control and quit blaming women for their faults. I don’t dress the way I do for any other man except my Husband....if another man looks, that is his problem/sin and he needs to take it up with God and his wife if he has one.

Great discussion! Late to it, but I wanted to expand a bit on what Ron touched on in his post -- or at least what I understood him to be getting at.

While we should all think about how we want to present ourselves in church (or to our co-workers, neighbors, and the world in general), we should be careful not to reinforce, in a backwards sort of way, objectification of the female form and the lies, as Ron so aptly puts it, women are told about their worth through advertising, popular culture, and so on.

Yes, women should pay attention to what they're telling the world about themselves by what they wear, but men -- Christian men -- have a responsibility to value women for the right reasons, not just respond to their physical attributes. Sure, we're all attracted to, well, attractive people (doh!), but it's up to each of us to look beyond, to proactively search for the person beneath the exterior, whether that means to look for the person behind the gorgeous features and fabulous figure or to look for the person behind the plainer package and quieter clothing.

Christian men can't be passive victims in these situations. If they remain passive, they're merely playing into all the lies contemporary society is spreading -- that women are things, objects, valued merely for their ability to provide pleasure for a man, and pleasure with no commitment, no strings attached, at that.

Christian women should value themselves and the men they encounter enough not to make a point of showcasing their sexuality, and Christian men should value themselves enough and the women they encounter by choosing to see beyond the superficial.

(This is my pen name)I made a vow to the Lord to stop wearing skinny jeans because the Lord spoke to me through this article. Although I wear long tops to go with the jeans, I still think they're too tight and are sensual in a way. I also shared this issue with all my other church members and they expressed their affirmation. I just told them that this is a personal rebuke to me and I will change my clothing style. I know that Jesus would give me great ideas with regard to my fashion sense which is also at the same time pleasing and favorable to my Lord. I could still, no doubt, look fabulous and pretty in baggy or loose jeans. :-) Two thumbs up for this article. It's a wake-up call. " Charm is deceptive and beauty is fleeting but a woman who fears the Lord is to be praised" Proverbs 31: 30 " God has called us to be holy, not to live impure lives. Anyone who refuses to live by these rules is not disobeying human rules but is rejecting God, who gives his Holy Spirit to you." 1 Thess. 4:8 " And I want women to be modest in their appearance. They should wear decent and appropriate clothing and not draw attention to themselves by the way they fix their hair or by wearing gold or pearls or expensive clothes. For women who claim to be devoted to God should make themselves attractive by the good things they do." 1 Tim.2: 9-10 God speed!

Very practical post. Thanks

So I read and read and read and then stopped, wow, lots of comments.

I am one of those women that are beautiful, no supermodel, but I have turned heads. If anything it has a lot to do with my outgoing, energetic, always smiling attitude as much as it does the curves I have.

I feel sometimes by others in the church like I should just go ahead an throw on a scarlet letter for being attractive and yet I didn't make this frame, God did.

I am a natural born leader, I grew up surrounded by brothers and their friends. I know their struggle, I respect, I consider it when I dress.

The responsibility to talk to the girls in our youth group has fallen on me but honestly I don't know what to tell them. Like one commenter pointed out, I don't want them to feel like the church'es men are drooling lusting wolves. I want the adult men to be examples of what their future husbands should be like. I don't want them to be naive about the temptations men face, but I guess I don't know how I feel about the matter because I struggle with it myself. As children with women's bodies, what do I say to them?

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