Gifted for Leadership

Comments

I am curious why women in some churches cannot teach the general congregation. Some of us women have been called by God to be pastors, to be ministers, to serve, to teach, and it would be disobedient if we did not follow His call. I am pleased that the church I attend have no restrictions on who can teach to whom. I pray that some of these church fathers realize what gifts that women can bring to their congregation.

Posted By: Nancy | March 11, 2011 2:11 PM

I agree that God may call some women into the types of leadership roles Nancy mentioned, and I too am thankful to serve in a church without restrictions. But if God has truly called a woman, He will open the doors for her at the right time. She would be disobedient if her pride caused her to be insistent on her "right" to lead, and if she tried to demand that she be allowed to fulfill her calling.

Posted By: Maureen | March 11, 2011 3:21 PM

My denomination in Brazil rightly aproved the ordination of women to grant them a title for what they have been practing for so many years: teaching, leading, helping, pastoring people. It is a matter of justice. It seems to me that 1 Corinthians 11:5,10 brings some clarification on this issue. A woman under authority, "prays" and "profecizes". Otherwise, Paul would contradict himself in 1 Co 14:34. That is the same thing with men. Without permission, no one preaches in my pulpit. Paul also says in Galatians 3:28 that in the church, gender differences shouldn't prevail. Look around and try to find a place were women aren't successfully present. Cultural boundaries shouldn't hinder the church to move forward, freeing herself from prejudices. Blessed are all men and women who serve the Lord faithfully. Thanks Nancy and Maureen for your comments. God bless you both.

Posted By: Roberto Bittencourt | March 11, 2011 9:54 PM

I am so glad that founder of The Salvation Army William Booth, fully supported women right to preach and lead. His wife, Catherine, shared fully in his ministry and his daughter, Evangeline, was later one of the top leaders of the Salvation Army in America.

William and Catherine Booth open the way for women to be in ministry positions back in 1865. It all started in London, England! When Catherine stood up in front of a large crowd and spoke with authority God's word with the full agreement of her husband. And this is the branch of the Christian Church I rejoice to be a part!

I am well aware of the views of some Christian circles in this matter of women in leadership. My heart is sad that we still doubt the calling of women for the ministry as Pastors in the 21 first century.

No women should be denied the opportunity to preach from the pulpit! My bible tells me so and I believe with all my heart!

I praise God for the opportunity to preach, teach and do evangelism for Jesus glory on this earth today as a Ordained Salvation Army Officer and Pastor!

Posted By: Maria | March 13, 2011 2:33 PM

I think it's very important to make the distinction between serving in a leadership position and being THE leader - IE Pastor or Elder. God is a God of order and He has made it abundantly clear from the beginning of His word to the end that He values women as much as men. He provided many examples of obedient women who served Him through leadership. Setting aside for a moment the obvious expectations for order in the church laid out in Timothy, think about what it means to 'lead'. Esther, who many people overlook or fail to actually consider in depth, saved her people. She was a very clear leader - and was obedient to God. We may not see her in a leadership position in the traditional sense (up in front of people w/ a microphone and a podium) but the choices she made - lead her people to salvation. Never forget what leadership really means - not standing in front of a congregation, but leading people to Christ.

Too often, especially in America, we get caught up in details God never intended for us to be concerned with. When the worlds notions of 'equality' and 'fairness' invade our spiritual lives - no good can come of it.

Posted By: Sarah | March 15, 2011 5:56 AM

Thank you for posting this. It's a treasure to have thoughtful perspectives on this issue in one place. I once heard that the gospel transcends the complementarian/egalitarian debate, but I wasn't so sure. Now I'm a believer.

The example of Jesus in the New Testament re: women in His Kingdom was radical to the core. It is hard to envision Jesus sending out Mary Magdalene as the apostle to the apostles, proclaiming His resurrection, and later telling her to "pipe down" and to assume leadership only in limited, culturally-approved ways. I mean, can you IMAGINE IT?

And yet...as Jesus set women free, He also called them (along with their brothers) to be servants. This is one of the tensions I pray for grace to live out as I seek to offer my leadership gifts for the sake of the Kingdom.

Posted By: Suzanne Burden | March 15, 2011 2:28 PM

I don't think Jesus Christ calls us to be leaders. He calls us to be followers - followers of Him. This is where any true leader must begin. As Christian women we are disciples of Jesus Christ - we are His followers. I think the more concerned we are with whether or not our leadership status is recognized the further we are from being a true follower and imitator of Christ. What did Christ do? He humbled Himself, He put aside glory, He was a servant to all. When Jesus saw the crowds of men and women who turned out to see Him, He knew not all of them were there for the right reason. He told them if they truly wanted to follow Him they must deny themselves and take up His cross. Denying self is an act of the will. Take up your cross. Die to self. Crucify self—my own will. Follow Jesus. What can the disciple of Jesus Christ expect? We can expect what Christ expected—to suffer, to be rejected, perhaps to be martyred, and to look forward to the day when we will be resurrected, just as Jesus was resurrected. If we follow Christ, we must expect hardship not exaltation and recognition. The disciple is not to expect anything other than what Jesus expected. What happened to Jesus will happen to us as His disciples. True discipleship begins with the humble attitude of my heart not with the magnitude of the task or the importance it may have in society.

Posted By: jEB | March 15, 2011 3:54 PM

I think our church needs leaders male or female who are obedient to Scripture and humble before God.

In the Epistles, Paul "seems" to be clear about what his thoughts about women teaching in church are. But NT Wright has a very good point in that one of the first Apostles (one who has seen God and been sent by Him) was Mary, a woman. And the point about Junia stands too. But was Junia a teacher?

The fact of the matter stands though. There were female leaders in the early church and Paul did not seem to have a problem with that. More so, Jesus empowered women (and men) to be bearers of the good news.

It's cool how NT Wright also argues for gender distinction. A lot of people that argue for women being able to teach in the church seem to blur gender distinction, which in my view is definitely wrong.

I'm still on the fence about women as ordained clergy, admittedly with a leaning towards "yes", but I definitely do know that God uses obedient, faithful people (male or female) to further His kingdom.

Posted By: JYP | March 16, 2011 9:34 AM

I did not find Bill Kynes argument all that compelling or strong or theologically informed. He leaned upon roles of "Mother and Father" yet in Genesis God created Men and Women, Male/Female (not moms and dads). If God meant for the mother/father roles to be the most prominent he would have said so, created them "Mom and Dad." I struggle with this because when you say "mom and dad in our culture today you end up with a culturally informed idea of these roles rather than a biblically informed idea. You end up with June Cleaver rather than God informing our "roles." And Paul himself championed the single life, so help me with that one? How do singles, infertile couples, adolescents etc. most fully understand their roles in the church if they have never been a parent? So help me understand how we got from Male/Female to Mom/Dad? Masculine and Feminine traits that come out in the church yes. Differences that are rooted in gender. Yes. But seriously, we are going to camp out on Mom/Dad here? Let's do some real exegesis here please. Or at least, let's pick a more Biblically informed video.

Posted By: Tracey | March 16, 2011 9:41 AM

Having been brought up at the knee of protestant views on women in the church, I struggle today as to where I am to be and what I am to be doing in regard to what I believe are my giftings and callings. I agree with the post above that we are to remain "followers", and not focusing on being "leaders", whether male or female. However, I do believe that there must be people in positions of leadership, whether male or female, for all entities must have leaders. Thank you for addressing this issue as it helps those of us who as females have been held back and down in the mainstream protestant church. Now, I pray to follow God wherever He leads me as one called to make Jesus known wherever He places me.

Posted By: Laura | March 17, 2011 6:36 AM

About going from male/female to mother father rolls,
I see that as a very appropriate and biblical step, as God clearly says to Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply - which is a SPIRITUAL principle that Jesus himself reiterates in John 15 when he talks about us bearing fruit in His kingdom. I totally agree with "Tracey" that we cannot lean solely on our "culturally informed ideas" of those mother/father roles, so let's lean on our biblically and God-informed ideas of the Father and Mother, both roles that God refers to himself as taking (mother: Isaiah 49:15, Matt 23:37 for example). So you ask how singles, infertile couples, adolescents can understand their roles as fathers and mothers in the church? They have all had fathers and mothers in their lives, whether natural or spiritual, with good experiences and bad, all of which can be learned from. We all have God as our "Father" (as Jesus referred to Him) and we have all been "mothered" by God as well. If we are to be imitators of God as dear children (Eph 5:1) then just as a child imitates their father/mother in how He deals with us, we will do the same and father and mother those he puts in our lives, as we mature in Christ. I can spiritually mother people (even being single and childless)because I have known both the Lord's fathering and mothering of me! Now, there are plenty of forms of mothering that women can do in the context of life in the body of Christ, and maybe that is what is at debate here, but to agree with another poster, whatever position (or lack there of) that we end up having in the church, we MUST maintain and foster our rolls as fathers and mothers to the edification of the church and the glory of God. It's discipleship!

p.s. I am referring to Fathers and Mothers here in the sense of "fruit-bearers". I acknowledge that I am not going into the differences between the two roles, which is maybe where the differences of opinion begin. But for that, for now, we will have to lean on the Lord's example of the ways of a Father and the ways of a Mother, both in His Spiritual dealings with us, and in the natural examples life provides us. Regardless, I just wanted to make an argument for the utter importance of the spiritual mother and father rolls in the church.

Posted By: JHay | March 17, 2011 9:25 AM

I agree with two of the three presentations. I feel that Kynes has the blueprint for marriage conferred upon the Church, when in fact the shoe is on the other foot.

Marriage is modeled by the blueprint of the Church, which says that the wife is to be subject to her husband in all matters. In the Church the Body is made up of physiological males and females, but in the Spirit totally non-gendered.

In the Church, where there is no male or female but all are one and alike in the Spirit, the collective Church Body is the Bride of Christ, Who is the Bridegroom and the Head of the Church; and in the Church total submission to Him is required, and in general as Christians, submission to each other without reference to gender.

When I go to Church, I am not the wife of all the males there. Indeed, in the Spirit there is no male or female there.

When I go home, if I am married, I am to be subject to my husband as a model of the relationship of Christ and the Church.

In the Spirit we are not either male or female. When we minister the physiological structure of our earth body is not supposed to be the authority and power from which we preach or teach or minister in anyway. All must be done by the Power of the Holy Spirit; Who has a history of speaking through not only female earth bodies but donkeys as well.

Posted by Ramona Cook on March 29, 2011

Posted By: Ramona Cook | March 29, 2011 11:58 AM

Growing up in the deep South during the era of segregation I watched the discussions on blacks move from overt language about their ontological inferiority toward the more palatable "separate but equal" language. The argument was that while blacks and whites were equal- they had different spheres (roles) in society. This was nothing more than racism dressed up in "complementarian language." And, today I watch with great sadness the same logic being applied to the ministry roles of women and men. It is no longer acceptable to say that women are ontologically inferior to men (at least in most Evangelical circles). Therefore, there has arisen the more acceptable language of "complementarian" identity and roles. These Evangelicals will argue that women and men are created "equal" before God, women have separate ministry roles or spheres from that of men. Of course, as in the era of segregation, there is one sphere for leadership and one for submission. In the age of racial segregation separate but equal was never equal. Such language only served to cloak deep racism in a more culturally acceptable form. And, in regards to women, complementarian language serves to cloak deep sexism and promote a culture of patriarchy. What amazes me is that women follow this logic as much as men. It is my prayer that we move out of our own age of "separate but equal" regarding roles of women and men in ministry and move toward full human partnership.

Posted By: Cheryl Bridges Johns | September 16, 2011 8:55 PM

Post a comment:

Name:

Email Address:

URL:

Remember Me?

Comments: (you may use HTML tags for style)

Verification (needed to reduce spam):

Just Lead!

A Royal Response to Tragedy

Partnering with God

Be Still, Ailing Minister, Part 3